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Interview with Wenzhou Taijiquan
​Master Liu Jinping (刘建平)

Original Chinese Language Article By: http://www.sx198.com
(Translated by Adrian Chan-Wyles PhD)
Picture
Wenzhou Shiji Square - Home of Chen Style Taijiquan

​Taijiquan Master Wei Lei (魏雷) Reflects On His Fight with
​Sanda Master Xu Xiaodong (徐晓冬)

​Following the recent ‘challenge’ match between Taijiquan Master Wei Lei (魏雷) and Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) practitioner Xu Xiaodong (徐晓冬) – held recently on the 27th, April (2017), in Chengdu, (Sichuan province) a debate around China has be sparked, considering the manner in which Master Wei Lei was knocked down after just 10 seconds, and beaten into submission after 20 seconds. Due to these circumstances, Shaoxing News has decided to seek the advice of a renowned and respected Taijiquan practitioner – namely Master Liu Jinping (刘建平) - who is the Chairman of the Wenzhou Taijiquan Sports Association, situated in Zhejiang province, Mainland China. We interviewed him yesterday (1.5.2017) after first reading his blog posts online discussing this matter, and asked him what he thought this all meant for the practice of Taijiquan in modern China.

This is the martial arts background to Master Liu Jianping - born in 1952 - who has been studying martial arts all his life, since he was a young child. Today, he is famous in Wenzhou for his Taijiquan knowledge and skill, and is one of just seven nationally recognised martial arts experts. In 1968, at the age of 16 years old, he became a student of Mr Xu Jinsheng (徐金生), with whom he studied Chen (陈) Style Taijiquan. Later, Master Liu Jianping became a ‘behind closed door‘ (入室 – Ru Shi) disciple of the Great Master Feng Zhiqiang (冯志强). Through expert training and good guidance, Master Liu Jianping also became proficient in ‘Eight Diagram Palm’ (八卦掌 – Ba Gua Zhang), and ‘Iron Sand Palm’ (铁砂掌 – Tie Sha Zhang), training as an inner disciple of the Great Master of Bagua - Wang Zhuanglei (王壮飞) [1910-1997].

Reporter: What are your impressions of the recent events in Chengdu involving the fight between Taijiquan and MMA?

Liu Jianping: This was not a fight between two styles or systems of martial arts, simply because no such competition is possible. A martial style or system is comprised of hundreds or thousands of students and teachers, each with its own unique history and philosophical approach to self-defence and living within a civilised community. When individuals choose to ‘test’ their martial skills against one another, then it must be logically acknowledged that such a contest is between the individuals concerned, and the curse of events dictated by the personal histories of those participants. No one is perfect, and everybody trains everyday to improve this or that weakness. What might be deficient today, might not be deficient tomorrow, due to improved understanding through further training. Conversely, someone who possesses excellent physical skills, might well suffer a set-back through injury and/or illness. The situation is fluid and pliable, which means that individuals might win or lose a fight for any number of reasons. Victory does not necessarily suggest a better moral character or dominant martial technique, and defeat does not always imply a deficiency. Although traditional Chinese martial arts can be used in a positive sporting context, it is also true that these teachings serve as a vehicle for moral and spiritual development. Therefore, traditional Chinese martial arts are MORE than sport, and should be treated with the appropriate respect. Master Wei Lei’s defeat is a personal matter entirely for himself, but the manner in which Xu Xiaodong has behaved (filming and sharing the footage in public), has meant a private moment has become public knowledge. My advice is to keep the mind calm, and not get swept along with the ‘hype’ and ‘hysteria’ that these kinds of media events are designed to generate and promote.

Reporter: Do you think that Xu Xiaodong, regardless of his behaviour, has demonstrated a serious weakness in Taijiquan as a martial art? If so, could this be a problem with Master Wei Lei’s style ‘Lei Gong’ (雷公)?

Liu Jianping: Not at all. Circumstances change all the time, and never remain the same. A brutish approach might work for a short-time, but eventually it will be bettered by a more controlled and internal counter-measure. If Master Wei Lei had possessed all the required Taijiquan fighting skills, matters would have transpired very differently, either during the fight, or perhaps with the surrounding circumstances being handled in a more mature and wise fashion, and no fight taking place. It is my understanding that Master Wei Lei has developed a derivative branch of Yang (楊) Style termed ‘Lei Gong’ and that this is designed to help people with longterm illnesses to heal. This is a proper and good use of Taijiquan that is inaccordance with the principles of traditional Chinese medicine – how could this be defeated? I have not heard of this style – but there are many ‘folk’ styles throughout China - too numerous to mention. Some are profound whilst others are technically limited but functional. In unsettled times, sometimes standards drop and experts die-away, causing chaos and misunderstanding, although in this situation, the problem appears to lie in personal ambition and ego glorification. In reality, Master Wei Lei’s losing to Xu Xiaodong has nothing to do with Taijiquan, and that is the approach I would take.

Reporter: Some people have suggested that modern combat sports are more effective than Taijiquan technique for self-defence, what is your opinion?

Liu Jianping: This assumption is incorrect. Master Wei Lei does not represent Taijiquan, and more to the point, Xu Xiaodong does not possess the authority to represent modern combat sport, how could he? This kind of limited sparring that involved a padded floor and a referee is a contrived situation that bears no resemblance to the battlefield conditions from which Taijiquan, or the modern situations where Taijiquan might have to be used in self-defence within society (due to the criminal behaviour of others). The techniques of modern combat sports are designed for securing victory through a limited contest setting, whereby the winner is given money, medals or similar, and whose ego is therefore boosted as a result. This has nothing to do with Chinese culture – either ancient or modern. Taijiquan is the ‘science’ of combat which is complex and difficult to learn. On the other hand, when people look at Taijiquan practice, they will be limited in their understanding to the level of knowledge and experience they possess. Obviously, Xu Xiaodong is motivated by selfish ideals, and possesses very little real insight. What must be remembered is that Master Yang Luchan (杨露禅) was a disciple of Master Chen Zhangxing (陈长兴), and when he went to Beijing as a fully fledged martial artist – he became known as ‘Yang the Invincible’ (杨无敌 – Yang Wu Di) – as no one (regardless of style) could beat his Taijiquan technique. As Taijiquan is so popular today, many use its technique to keep fit and healthy without learning the combative element – which I believe is the situation with Master Wei Lei.

Reporter: It is my understanding that Xu Xiaodong has threatened Master Wang Zhanjun (王战军) as one of the three principle Taijiquan practitioners he would like to fight, to prove their arts useless – what are your views on this?

Liu Jianping: My view is that the proper attitude for a Chinese martial arts practitioner is one of tolerance and respect, and that in this regard, Xu Xiaodong viewpoints are deficient and misled. Another factor is patience with those whose minds are confused and prone to errors in opinions and behaviours. It is better to remain ‘still’ and ‘quiet’ in the face of such provocation.

Reporter: Wenzhou is renowned as a centre of Chen Style Taijiquan practice – how do you think this incident will impact the martial arts community?

Liu Jianping: In truth, I cannot say, but I suspect nothing much will happen. It is only in the popular imagination that this case has taken on a life of its own, but in reality it is just a product of stupidity and poor judgement. With all due respect, Master Wei Lei is not a major representative of Taijiquan in China, and so his lose is personal only, but if someone of the stature of Wang Zhanjun (or his brother Wang Zhanhai - 王战海) were to be defeated (which is unlikely), that would be a different matter altogether. Why? I have met both these excellent martial artists in Wenzhou (Wang Zhanjun was the 2008 winner of the Wulin Grand Championship for Chen Style Taijiquan practice). This is simply a matter of quality of lineage and transmission.

Reporter: What are your views on the 20 second video Xu Xiaodong uploaded onto Youku?

Liu Jianping: The video is very short and not of good quality. The film angle (and stability) is so poor that it is difficult to discern anything with clarity. Certainly, nothing of significance transpired. I could not see what technique Master Wei Lei was performing, or how much of an effort he was making. In this regard, I cannot add much more insight.

Reporter: What can you say about the development of Taijiquan n Wenzhou?

Liu Jianping: There are six established Taijiquan schools: Yang (杨) Style, Chen (陈) Style, Wu (吴) Style, Wu (武) Style, Sun (孙) style, and He (和) Style - although within Wenzhou, people tend to favour the Yang Style. Local history traces the presence of folk martial arts as far back as the Ming Dynasty, (and before) with Yang Style Taijiquan coming into the area as the first Taijiquan tradition – where many successful schools were developed. Although Wenzhou is known for Chen Style Taijiquan today, in fact, many people in the area practice Yang Style. Both styles exist side by side, because of course, they are historically linked. Certainly, there is no contradiction or antagonism between the two styles – as only a sense of openness and co-operation exists. Of course, as the path of history does not always run smoothly, there have been times when martial arts practice has died-out, or perhaps gone underground, but today, following decades of peace in China, the Wenzhou martial arts community is thriving! In 2014, the Wenzhou Taijiquan Sports Association was founded. This pulled together all the martial arts schools in the area to assist the government implement its nation-wide policy of improving health and fitness throughout the country. This is not a new policy, but it has taken many decades to spread effectively throughout the thousands of villages, towns and cities of China. The emphasis is upon volunteering to teach Taijiquan ‘free of charge’ in public spaces such as parks, squares and other open areas, and to encourage all citizens to practice daily so as to ensure their good health. Teaching for free is part of developing a virtuous character within martial arts training. In these modern times, there are two ways to teach Taijiquan – one is to introduce a group of different people to the art and help them build a regular practice – whilst the second method is for a master to watch all those who train, as a means to carefully choose formal ‘disciples’. Those selected are then taken ‘behind closed doors’ for advanced training.

Reporter: Are there any problems with the development of Taijiquan practice?

Liu Jianping: Not at all. Taijiquan for public use is easy to learn and easy to teach – so the standards at this point are not too demanding. Anyone can learn, and after a few months, teach others. This is the modern approach which is useful for mass propagation, but is different from the traditional model which has very high standards and is difficult to penetrate. Only those with a virtuous attitude can proceed in the traditional manner. Both models exist side by side in modern China.

Reporter: Is Taijiquan practice really good for health?

Liu Jianping: Yes. Taijiquan philosophy is premised upon the interaction of yin and yang, and the five phases of qi transformation – in other words – the same foundation as traditional Chinese medicine. This is why the ancient sages practised Taijiquan as a means to build robust health and pro-long life expectancy. It is this historical association with Daoism – which perceives Taijiquan practice as a form of medicine – that has led to the modern emphasis upon practice for health. This is not a bad thing – as even Taijiquan practice for self-defence is still premised upon the preservation of good health.

Reporter: What is your advice for the modern Taijiquan practitioner?

Liu Jianping: 1) Find a good teacher. 2) Persevere. 3) Still and quiet the mind. 4) Fully circulate the ‘air’, or ‘oxygen’ (空气 – Kong Qi), or ‘empty energy’ throughout all the energy channels of the body – thus opening these channels and strengthening the qi energy circulation, inner organs and other physical structures.  


©opyright: Adrian Chan-Wyles (ShiDaDao) 2017.

Original Chinese Language Article: http://www.sx198.com/ArticleView_82212.html
​

不到10秒,“雷公太极”被击倒!温州太极拳师怎么看?
这几天,一段综合格斗教练徐晓冬与雷公太极创始人雷雷的切磋视频在网上爆红,雷雷在开战后不到10秒就被对方击倒。这段视频引起了公众对传统武术实战性的质疑,并迅速激起话题讨论:中国传统武术是不是不敌现代搏击?为替太极“正名”,4月29日陈式太极多名弟子向徐晓冬公开发起战书。
  这件事情也颇受温州太极拳界的关注。刘建平是温州市太极拳运动协会的主席,也是我市著名的太极拳师,这两天,在刘建平的朋友圈和微信群里,不少同仁聊的都是这件事。昨天,他也谈了对该事件的看法和温州太极拳的发展现状。
  ■人物名片 太极拳师刘建平
  刘建平是我市著名的太极拳师、国家武术七段,自幼习武。他生于1952年,1968年16岁时就跟随徐金生先生习练陈式太极拳,后又拜在太极拳泰斗级大师冯志强名下,是冯老师的入室弟子。刘建平还精通八卦掌、铁砂掌,是已故八卦大师王壮飞先生的得意门生。
  温州世纪广场陈式太极拳培训中心——太极拳爱好者的“家园”
  ■对雷雷事件看法
  个人比拼不能代表武术界
  不要被有心之人的炒作绑架
  记者:怎么看雷公太极创始人雷雷败给综合格斗教练徐晓冬这一热点事件?
  刘建平:太极拳是中国传统武术的拳法之一,武术是体育,但又高于体育,有一定的规则,太极拳的民间切磋也讲究一定的规则。雷公和徐晓冬的比拼就是个人之间的切磋,天下武术是一家,都可以相互切磋较量,互相学习交流。每个拳术里都有水平高低的人,有输赢都很正常。但雷公输给徐晓冬也只能代表个人的输赢。
  记者:有人说雷公输给徐晓冬是太极拳输给了现代搏击,您认同吗?
  刘建平:雷公不能代表中国太极拳,徐晓冬也不能代表现代搏击,这场比赛仅仅只是个人之间的比赛,而不是两大拳术间的比拼,不能以一场比赛的胜负,就说哪个拳法高于哪个。
  记者:有人质疑太极拳没有实战性,觉得太极拳不能打,您怎么看?
  刘建平:自古太极拳一直是有实战性的,也是有历史考据的,太极拳历史上有杨露禅,是陈长兴的徒弟,曾打遍京城,被称为杨无敌。只是随着现代社会的发展,太极拳主要偏向强身健体,侧重养生了。
  记者:现在陈式太极拳多名弟子包括陈向武座下弟子黎光晋、王战军兄弟和弟子韩飞龙,以及陈自强门下弟子等,已经向徐晓冬发战书,您觉得胜负会如何?
  刘建平:徐晓冬是何许人也,我并不清楚,但王战军兄弟(王战军、王战海)我都相识,他们也都曾来过温州,而且王战军是2008年武林大会陈式太极拳年度总冠军。可以说,王战军兄弟代表太极拳界,如果他们输了,那真是太极拳输了,那么太极拳界真的要好好反思了。
  记者:徐晓冬曾在接受采访时声称王战军是他三个最想挑战的对手之一,也曾直言太极的“无用”,您怎么看?
  刘建平:真正习武之人是谦虚的,不仅练的是功夫,还要练出气度。徐晓冬敢直接跟太极拳的“战神”般人物宣战,随意评议太极端,有点狂妄,可能他连太极是什么都没有真正了解,就随意评论太极拳,并不客观。我认为大家不要被别有用心人的炒作绑架了。
  记者:听说过雷公太极吗?太极拳界有这一流派吗?
  刘建平:并没有听说过这个流派,可能是自创的民间流派,现在类似自创门派很多。
  记者:您看了雷公和徐晓冬的比拼视频,您觉得雷公为何会输?
  刘建平:视频很短,看不出雷公具体练的是什么拳法,也不知道功夫深浅,具体也不太好评说。
  ■太极拳发展现状
  杨式太极拳最早传入
  近年各流派发展迅速
  记者:太极拳是什么时候传入温州的?
  刘建平:太极拳在温州发展的底蕴很深厚,人才辈出,根据民间说法,甚至可以追溯到明末,但中间断了很长时间,当时练习的人也不多。不过有据可考的,传入温州最早的是杨式太极拳,在上世纪三四十年代就已经在温州进行推广,其杰出的代表有蒋幼山、范亚夫、林镜平等,为温州的太极拳运动奠定了基础。随后是上世纪五十年代左右,陈式太极拳传入。
  记者:目前温州有几大太极拳门派?发展如何?
  刘建平:太极拳的六大流派:杨式、陈式、吴式、武式、孙式、和式,在温州都各有发展,其中打杨式太极拳的人最多,其次是陈式。温州的各门派也没有明确的“掌门”之说,近年来,各大门派发展较快,打太极的人越来越多,随之民间也多了不少自创的门派,发展有些乱。
  记者:近年来,太极拳都是如何发展推广的?
  刘建平:近年来,政府也很重视全民健身“武术六进”(进学校,进社区,进乡镇,进企业,进机关,进军营),2014年自温州市太极拳运动协会成立以来,协会也是大力推进无偿义务在公园等公共场所教授太极,这也是推广太极的重要途径之一。此外,太极的传授还有两大途径,一是,市民主动报班学习;二是,有些太极拳师傅会主动招收徒弟。
  记者:现在温州太极拳的发展有面临什么问题吗?
  刘建平:打太极的门槛很低,普通市民都可以学打太极。而太极也缺少相应科学的考评机制,导致太极拳的老师门槛也很低,不少人打了几年太极就去招收学生,自立门派,导致太极门派混乱,民间流传着不纯正的太极拳法。
  记者:太极拳真的有养生之效吗?
  刘建平:太极拳集合中医经络学、中医阴阳学、导引吐纳等内容,本来就有强身健体、延年益寿的功效,甚至还有古人就靠练太极治病。近年来太极拳发展偏向养生。
  记者:对于打太极的市民有什么建议吗?
  刘建平:一是,要有好的老师;二是,持之以恒;三是,静下心来;四是,一定要选择空气流通,空气较好,风不要太大的地方。
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