Thank you, Tony!

I appreciate your continuous input. I was discussing this movement yesterday with a student. Snake Creeps Down (I wrote this sometime ago) is practiced (as you already known) within many Taijiquan Forms - performed at various heights (or "depths") - high, medium, or low. I remember a Wado Ryu Kata using this stance - but with the weight-bearing foot having the heal "lifted" during execution (see picture attached). I see similar stances (at various heights) in Shotokan. For me, Goju stances are similar to Shaolin - box-like, practical and strong (similar to Xingyiquan) - like our gongfu (Longfist) stances. As always, I am ready for correction - and thank you for it!

My teacher (Master Chan Tin Sang) taught Snake Creeps Down in three broad ways - "high", "medium", and "low". Low is always taught first - as it is the hardest to perform. It is also the most impractical to use in combat - so why do it? Well, the Heart Meridian as defined within Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) - is stimulated when the back of the leg is "elongated" and "stretched". This movement increases blood-flow to the tips of the toes from the inner organs, etc, creating a two-way exchange of "qi" (oxygen and bio-electrical) energy. Old qi is expelled - whilst new qi takes its place. I believe this concept has its origins in the "Neijing" [內經] "Internal Classic". 

For combat efficiency (and flow), however, a practitioner must adjust this movement. The stance has to be high or medium (a type of "back-stance") before the elaborate hand application(s) can be effectively deployed. The excellent video-clip you forwarded, for instance, appears to remove the drop-down leg-position completely - and replaces it with a "Horse-Stance" mediated by a number of connecting (natural) stances (varying in height or depth). In our family system a similar approach is applied. When emphasising combat - the drop-stances are performed at a higher-level - as this allows for a more efficient transition between connecting techniques.

Hakka styles tend to be clever but robust - deliberately clashing with strength - when strength is dominant and over-powering. Even placing the weight onto a bent reverse-leg is viewed as "giving ground" - which is okay providing such an action is required. Qinna (擒拿) - "trapping and re-directing" is the principle directing the hand and arm movements. This interpretation will vary from style to style - and even between teachers within the same style.

For every official definition - a student is encouraged to seek-out a hundred more! The lead arm is the leather whip (which "snaps" from the shoulder-joint - although in reality only in the internal sense) - whilst the reverse arm (with its chicken-head-type block) - is the reverse arm. Re-directing, locking enemy joints, and up-rooting the opponent's legs and feet is precisely the applied function of the "Snake Creeps Down" methodology! The medical application is the "internal" - whilst the combat application(s) - is the "external". As I am currently staying in Galmpton (South Devon) - I am exclusively practising my Forms (Katas) whilst on holiday for the Festive Season.

All Best Wishes


Adrian

According to the People’s Daily the consensus is that Ma Baoguo is NOT a genuine martial arts ‘Master’ - but rather a highly effective ‘Front Man’ deliberately employing comedic routines – to ‘sell’ (at extortionate prices) made-up (and seemingly ‘random’) movements falsely presented as ‘Ancient’ elements of traditional Chinese martial arts! As numerous unseen individuals and business entities supported Ma Baoguo – he was compelled twice (during 2017 and 2020) to put his health and well-being on the line by ‘sparring’ (full contact) with much younger men despite already being in his mid to late 60s! As can be imagined, since becoming a media sensation the biography of Ma Baoguo is well-known in China! Despite the ‘Official Line’ emanating from within China (and echoed outside of China) stating that Ma Baoguo is ‘fake’, nevertheless, he does possess a martial background (which varies in degrees of legitimacy from ‘possible’ to ‘spurious’) – but which can be substantiated through a mixture of verifiable ‘Personal’ and ‘Public’ Records. This Record maybe summarised as follows: 

a) The Ma Family Martial Arts Style is known as the ‘Shandong Ma Family Martial art’ (山东马家功夫 - Shan Dong Ma Jia Gong Fu) and has been passed down as follows: 

i) ‘Ma Zhongyi’ (马忠义) taught his son ‘Ma Defeng’ (马德峰). 

ii) ‘Ma Defeng’ (马德峰) taught son - Ma Baoguo - from around 7-years of age (during 1959). 

iii) ‘Ma Baoguo’ (马保国) has taught his son - ‘Ma Xiaoyang’ (马晓阳). 

b) Ma Baoguo served for six-years in a PLA (Shandong) Garrison – stationed between 1970-1976 (where it is likely that he trained in militarised ‘Longfist’ [長拳 - Chang Quan]). 

c) Between 1982-1984 - Ma Baoguo (who was aged between 30-32 years old at this time) attended Xi'an University. Here, Ma Baoguo trained under Master Shang Ji (尚济) - a teacher who is universally recognised as a legitimate Xingyiquan (形意拳) practitioner. 

d) During 1987, Ma Baoguo met one ‘Guo Daxia’ (郭大侠) of ‘Wudang’ (武当) - a self-proclaimed lineage successor and ‘Great Hero’ of the ‘Wudang’ and ‘Emei’ (峨眉) martial traditions! This person is also known as ‘Guo Shanghai’ (郭升海). Ma Baoguo studied with this teacher – and later became a ‘Disciple’. 

e) During the summer of 1997, Ma Baoguo met Wang Changhai (王长海) - the second-generation descendant of Hunyuan (混元) Taiji (太极). Wang Changhai taught martial arts in the local park, and Ma Baoguo is recorded as participating in just ‘their’ (public) Push-Hands Classes. Although Ma Baoguo has claimed that Wang Changhai was his ‘Master’ and transmitted his Style to him - Ma Baoguo is not included amongst the ‘Official’ thirty-nine ‘Inheriting’ Disciples of the (Official) Hunyuan Taiji genealogy. 

He was born during 1952 in the Linyi (临沂) area of Northeast China’s Shandong province – but was raised further South - in Central China’s Henan province. His father was ‘Ma Defeng’ (马德峰) - who served in the Eighth Route Army, whilst his grandfather was ‘Ma Zhongyi’ (马忠义) - a bona fide martial artist. The Family Style passed down from ‘Ma Zhongyi’ (马忠义) to his son ‘Ma Defeng’ (马德峰) - was known as ‘Shandong Ma Family Martial art’ (山东马家功夫 - Shan Dong Ma Jia Gong Fu). Ma Baoguo started learning this martial art from his father at around 7-years of age (during 1959). At the end of 1968 (at 16-years old) - Ma Baoguo enrolled in Neixiang County Senior High School (Neixiang No. 1 High School) in Henan Province. During December 1970 (at 18-years old), Ma Baoguo, (who had successfully graduated from high school), joined the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) and served in the Shandong Long Island Fortress for six-years (until 1976 – when he was 23-years old). Before the Spring Festival in 1976 (when he was 24-years old), Ma Baoguo married his fiancée - Chen Shumin (陈淑敏) - a good women who worked hard in the countryside. During March 1976, Ma Baoguo was demobilized from the PLA after six-years of Service - returned to Neixiang County. In May, he was assigned to Nanyang City as a worker. Despite the intrigue that developed during his later life, Ma Baoguo did have a youth immersed within martial arts and military study. 

A typical narrative suggests that in 2001, Ma Baoguo’s son – Ma Xiaoyang – enrolled to study for an academic Degree (Master of Business Administration) in the UK. Ma Baoguo was required to borrow a very large amount of money to finance this venture, and this created a large family debt. Ma Baoguo travelled to the UK in 2002 to assist his son through teaching Taijiquan to the British people – and it is here (and not in China) - where Ma Baoguo began to find fame and admiration! Between 2002-2007 he attracted thousands of British students all willing to pay for his instruction! This is how Ma Baoguo became very rich and managed to pay-off all his family debt! During February 2004, he founded the "British Hunyuan Taijiquan Association"! This was his first organisation which fed-back into his native China! On the strength of this achievement, during the Summer of 2013, Ma Baoguo, (together with his son - Ma Xiaoyang - and his fellow disciples) co-founded the ‘Hunyuan Xingyi Taiji Gate’ (浑元形意太极门 - Hun Yuan Xing Yi Tai Ji Men) - whilst still claiming a ‘hidden’ transmission from Wang Changhai (王长海) - an assertion that has not yet been convincingly ‘denied’ by the established followers of Wang Changhai. Ma Baoguo describes this organisation as an ‘Advanced’ Internal Chinese Martial Arts School. During the Autumn of 2015, Ma Baoguo assisted his son - Ma Xiaoyang - in founding the ‘Shanghai Hunyuan Martial Arts Temple’ (上海浑元国术馆 - Shang Hai Hun Yuan Guo Shu Guan) - serving as the ‘Honorary’ curator. 

On March 12, 2015, the then 64-year-old Ma Baoguo was in the UK once again on a short visit. During this time, he ‘hired’ a local MMA fighter turned-actor – ‘Peter Irving’ - for an hour of work. This involved set-piece photography and video scenes designed to highlight the Style of martial arts Ma Baoguo had developed! There was no fighting or conflict. Later, however, the footage was released on the internet claiming that Ma Baoguo had ‘challenged’ and ‘defeated’ an MMA European Champion! (There were also further spurious claims of another British fighter being defeated - supposedly later the same day).  

In 2017, the 65-year-old Ma Baoguo appeared in the public eye (in China) for the first time, He achieved this feat by agreeing to ‘fight’ the 37-year-old MMA fighter - Xu Xiaodong (徐晓冬) in Shanghai on June 26th! However, as the fight was about to start, the Police arrived and stated the venue was not suitable for such an event and that everyone was to peacefully leave! Many accused Xu Xiaodong of only agreeing to fight ‘old’ men and never anyone who could genuinely challenge him. The interest surrounding this intended event attracted thousands of people to the cause of Ma Baoguo and assisted in the boosting of his business interests! Meanwhile, Ma Baoguo implied that he had ‘won’ the 2017 fight by using ‘hidden’ spiritual powers that manipulated physical matter and took away Xu Xiaodong’s ability to fight – whilst rumours surfaced that in fact Ma Baoguo had ordered his nephew (‘Ma Bin’ - 马斌) to telephone the Police and ‘Report’ the venue for safety failings (the intercepted text is believed to have read ‘Quick - tell the Police before he kills me’)! Ma Baoguo denied this allegation – stating that he did not have a nephew named “Ma Bin”!  

This all fed into in Ma Baoguo’s clash with the 49-year-old ‘Wang Qingmin’ (王庆民) - a ‘folk martial artist’ (in fact, this former PLA soldier is an expert in Xingyiquan) - which occurred on May 17th, 2020, in the Zibo area of Shandong (although neither participant received any payment for taking part). This fight lasted no longer than 30 seconds and involved a 68-year-old Ma Baoguo being knocked-down three times by series of straight right punches landed by Wang Qingmin! Throughout the contest Wang Qingmin was ‘orthodox’ (with his left-hand and left-foot always forward) - whilst Ma Baoguo fought exclusively in ‘south-paw’ - with his right-hand and right-foot forward! This left Ma Baoguo continuously ‘open’ to Wang Qingmin’s straight-right' - which Ma Baoguo was unable to defend against! The first punch knocked Ma Baoguo’s head around four to six inches ‘backward’ from the vertical position and probably did all the damage – irreparably jarring the brain (in fact, these blows were two straight punches landed in quick succession). Momentum was added to Wang Qingmin’s blows by Ma Baoguo moving forward and slightly to his left (running on to the punches). ft It is remarkable that this 68-year-old man - ‘fake’ or not - managed to get straight to his feet to continue (with no ‘Ten’ count being administered at any point during the contest – although this might have been due to Ma Baoguo getting-up too quickly). In an attempt to avoid this straight-right – Ma Baoguo attempted to move backwards and to his right.  

However, as he was unable to move quickly enough, Wang Qingmin stepped into the empty space created (covering more ground) – landing a type of ‘sling-shotting’ (single) straight-right that was partially blocked by Ma Baoguo’s raised left-arm – but which still landed to the side of Ma Baoguo’s face. This set of combined movements effectively ‘knocked’ Ma Baoguo head and pelvic girdle quicker to his right than his legs could carry him (fatally altering his centre of balance) – and he fell once again (although I suspect his legs were still not working properly following the first knock-down). Yet again Ma Baoguo got to his feet – although by now he was looking very much like the old man he was. As there was nothing coming back from Ma Baoguo – Wang Qingmin had been allowed to establish the habit of ‘walking forward’ with virtually no guard – and this is exactly what he kept on doing. Ma Baoguo, on the other hand, continued to circle to his right – and it is at this point in the fight that the only kicks were thrown. As Ma Baoguo is ‘double-weighted’ (a habit seen in all beginners which causes a cognitive ‘delay’ between ‘preparing’ the body to throw a kick – and ‘actually’ throwing the kick) - he launches a front (heel) kick off his right-lag – but he does this by momentarily placing his left-leg forward (presumably in an attempt to gain momentum), a desperate move which missed its target (again, even taking into account his poor technique, I suspect his legs were not working properly following the accumulative effects of the knockdowns).  

Interestingly, Wang Qingmin appeared to block this attack by ‘kicking’ Ma Baoguo’s attacking kick with a right front (heel) kick of his own (thrown off his reverse-leg). Wang Qingmin then momentarily lands in a ‘southpaw’ stance (the only time he would do this during the entire contest) - simultaneously throwing a straight-right jab (which landed flush to Ma Baoguo’s chin). As Wang Qingmin is uncomfortable fighting in ‘southpaw’ - he immediately switched to his usual ‘orthodox’ stance – throwing yet another (reverse) straight-right punch which also landed flush on Mao Baoguo’s chin! Ma Baoguo absorbs the first ‘jab’ apparently unscathed – but as soon as the second punch lands (the two punches are about one-second apart) - his stunned and traumatised brain ‘switches-off’ all voluntary control of his body and he falls unconscious to the ground. Official and Medical personnel rush to the aid of the now supine Ma Baoguo – concerned that he may be seriously hurt. He remained unconscious for two-minutes.  

Chinese Language Sources: 

https://baike.baidu.com/item/马保国/50106525 
https://www.nanmuxuan.com/sport/ZLKeihvEUT.html 
https://freewechat.com/a/MzI3MzYwNTA2Ng==/2247485822/1 ​

Dear Tony

This is a very small snapshot of the gongfu videos available in China. The family styles are rugged, unpolished, and historically practiced and passed on in secret. Only recently has Chinese culture changed to accommodate routine public display. These arts were never wiped-out and the genuine Masters do not live in Taiwan. Although different, these arts look similar in their rawness to the genuine Hakka arts designed for communal health and defence - and not sport or leisure, etc. In other words, how your teaching of Gpju Ryu came across to me in Hereford. 

It is difficult to say whether an art is 'external' or 'internal' - as a genuine art includes both aspects 'integrated' (zagong) at essence - with practitioners choosing to emphasis which aspect suits the situation. Many Taiwanese practitioners take-on an 'aggressive' tendency to match the tone of their government - and therefore appear 'external'. It is the expected thing. Master Zhao Ming Wang often holds seminars in Beijing for Daoist self-cultivation - and hundreds of Taiwanese attend all pledging their loyalty to the Mainland - so I suppose it is a case of swings and roundabouts! The 'Double-Daggers' remind me of 'Sai'!

Many Fujian Gongfu Vidoes (YouKu)

Traditional Martial Arts Yongchun White Crane Fist 007 Basic Routine - Guan Gong Removes Boots (Fujian)

Traditional Martial Arts Yongchun White Crane Fist 006 Basic Routines - Great One-Thousand [Da Qian] (Fujian)

Traditional Martial Arts Yongchun White Crane Fist 012 Basic Routines - Double-Daggers (Fujian)

Traditional Martial Arts Yongchun White Crane Fist 014 Basic Routines Equipment Hooked Sickle Spear (Fujian)

Traditional Martial Arts - Dragon Respect Fist (Long Zun Quan) 002 - 108 Forms (Fujian)

Traditional Martial Arts Yujiaquan 001 Yu Family Fist (Fujian)

Traditional Martial Arts Yongchun White Crane Fist 016 Basic Rake (Tiger Form) - (Fujian)

Many Thanks


Adrian

PS: Three extra videos from different Styles:

Bench Vs Staff

Single Jian (Gim)

​Traditional Wushu Xingyiquan 013 Paired Practice - Close-Quarter Cannon-Striking Body-Shot Law - Featuring Zhang Jisheng (张吉生) - jìn Gairuì (靳改瑞)